Why turf fields fundamentally are dangerous

After a source revealed 2022 injury data for turf fields was "awful," Mike Florio and Chris Simms break down the tangible differences between artificial turf and grass at every level of the game.

- There was a great feature on HBO'S "Real Sports" on Tuesday night. Andrea Cramer reported talking to Dr. Timothy Kremchek, who's been the team physician for the Cincinnati Reds for 27 years. He also participates in providing medical services at high school football games.

And the thrust of it was artificial turf is incredibly more dangerous than grass. And because the NFL uses it, all these high schools think that it's OK. And you've got these old fields that are overused, that are hard as a rock, that kids are getting injured on all the time. He said there's an epidemic of injuries on high school fields because it is harder. They showed this test where the absorption by the field of the weight when someone's head hits, and when you drop a weight on grass it just kind of stays there. When you drop a weight on Turf, it bounces back up.

- Exactly.

- The turf doesn't absorb it. The head does. The helmet does. So you've got a proliferation of knee injuries because, as Dr. Kremchek said, one of your points, you put your foot in, and your foot gets stuck.

- Exactly.

- And so the stress goes from the foot to the ankle to the knee, and pop goes the ACL. That's what happens to the lower leg. Then you get thrown onto the turf and the force stays with your helmet, and you get a concussion. You get a head injury that way. That's why the turf is dangerous. And the NFL always says we want to make these safety changes so it will trickle down to the other levels of the sport. Well, guess what? You're ignoring a safety issue for money, as it relates to grass versus turf.

- Right.

- And that's trickling down the wrong way.

- Right.

- An unsafe condition is trickling down because all these schools think, hey, if it's good enough for the NFL, it's good enough for us.

- Yeah, that's right. Well, yeah, we'll worry about the kickoff return, though. We're worried about the kick return. How about the guys running down on the kick returner are getting hurt before they even get to hit anybody because the turf sucks, NFL? How about the we're going to change all the freaking fields for the World Cup soccer players, but not our own American football players.

- That's a big issue.

- That's disgusting.

- That's a big issue.

- It's actually disgusting. It's disgusting.

- Think about that.

- The owners should be ashamed of themselves. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

- Stan Kroenke and Jerry Jones, we're calling you out.

- Yeah.

- You're going to bend over backwards so you can get some of that FIFA money. You're going to bend over backwards, and you're going to put grass, you're going to put pristine FIFA-quality grass because that's the only way you're getting the games. That's the only way you're going to--

- Because their players won't play on turf. Explain that too.

- Because they won't play on it.

- Exactly. Right.

- Because they won't do it because that's what's required. To have a chance at the game, the players won't play on turf. They want grass. They want good grass. They'll do it for them because they're chasing the big Mamu, but they won't do it for their own players because they don't have to, because it would be too expensive to have a grass system all the time, because that might cut into our budget that we have to have for all of our servants who take care of our super yachts. We can't have that. We can't have that. I mean, we're talking about people who are obscenely wealthy, who are too cheap to protect their own investments. That's what's ludicrous about this.

- That's exactly right.

- Even if you don't regard these players as human beings, you have money invested in them. Why do you want to put them at risk of injury where they aren't going to be available to play for you because you're too damn cheap to put in a good grass system that would be safer for them? They all want it, almost universally they want it, but they can't get it. And the league, what the league does, Chris-- and this is another call that comes from inside the house. Dr. Sills told the owners this week that the numbers for injuries on turf versus grass this year, they weren't good.

- Oh yeah.

- Nobody asked what are the numbers.

- Yeah.

- But nobody asked what are the numbers.

- Of course.

- Nobody-- why would nobody ask what the numbers are. So I asked yesterday twice, what are the numbers? You know what I got?

- Yeah, crickets.

- Crickets.

- Yeah, right. Of course.

- But I was told, I was told, I was told they were awful.

- Yeah.

- By someone who is willing to talk because they know that I'm willing to say it.

- Right.

- The numbers were awful. It's a disaster. And the league is circling the wagons because they're participating in the effort to help the owners save money. And I remember years ago when the NFL was in its lockout with the Union. I was actually-- that's when they would make people available from the league to be on shows like this because they're trying to preach their gospel about why they're right and the Union's wrong, and Roger Goodell was on this show back in 2011.

And I remember the suggested talking points from PR was to point out that he's not just the commissioner for the owners. He's the commissioner for all of football at every level. If that's true, Commissioner, Mr. Commissioner if I may, this is on you. You're the one that needs to push this through. The evidence is there. The evidence is there, Roger. The players don't want this turf. The high schools shouldn't be playing on this turf.

- No. The colleges shouldn't be.

- You're the one who can change it. And he's getting a new contract. That should be the first thing he does once he gets his next contract because you have no more power than you have the moment your new contract kicks in.

- Right.

- That's the moment that if he truly wants to build a legacy, and that's what he needs to be thinking about now. The last four years of his job, how am I going to be remembered? How about I'm going to be the guy that gets rid of these God-awful turf fields once and for all and has grass everywhere. Good grass, not crappy grass, not grass that in Carolina they're not ready for it to be 25 degrees and it's harder than the hardest artificial turf field. I'm talking about real, playable, safe grass.

- Yeah.

- But you want you want a legacy for Roger Goodell? Let him be the Grass Commissioner, the guy who got rid of turf once and for all. Let's see if he's willing to do it.

- I mean, yes. I mean, again, and nothing on the field turf is as good. Nothing. I would think head injuries will go down too once we get off field turf. Again, I would question that we wouldn't see some of those people frozen in as many positions because of what you talked about. Watch everybody-- go watch the HBO "Real Sports." When you bounce it off the field turf, things bounce.

- Oh, and we're in it. And we're in it, by the way. I didn't mention that earlier.

- No, so this is where I wanted to go. We're in it because you know me, I've been red-faced about this for a long time. So we're in it. But more importantly, right after we're in it are the Kelce brothers, right? And I know I'm paraphrasing here, right? But Travis Kelce basically says he'd rather play on anything in the world other than field turf. He'd rather do anything.

- I'd rather play in a thunderstorm with the risk of getting struck by lightning than play on artificial turf.

- Exactly. He rattled it off perfectly. The players hate it. It's ridiculous. And I hope the NFL, we can all put enough pressure on them here as we go to change this. I mean, and it goes like you said. It's trickled to the high schools, the colleges. It's a joke. Oh, the greatest college game ever played, the game, Michigan-Ohio State on plastic. Oh, OK.

Texas, my old school. They're making $90 zillion freaking dollars a year. Put a freaking grass field down there. It's a joke across because they're just-- we want to save a few extra dollars, but screw the people that are supporting and making us the dollars. Screw them. They can get hurt and whatever because I can have a concert here next week, and that'll all be good.

- After the segment ended, Andrea Cramer was in studio with Brian Gumble, and she said that she's talked to players, just basically do the morning after a game by the way your body feels?

- Definitely.

- Whether you played on grass or turf.

- And they said absolutely.

- Yeah.

- Feel it all over. Knees are swollen up. Knee has to be drained. They know it instinctively the next day whether they played on grass or turf. I remember when we were kids, and it was the Phil Simms green cement that I still don't know how your dad is able to walk upright after playing on that stuff. I remember that if we had access to go play on a turf field, we thought--

- Oh, that's so cool.

- --that's what we see on TV.

- You're a pro, right?

- And then the next morning, the next morning-- and we're playing two-hand touch.

- Right.

- The next morning, nobody can get out of bed because every joint from the waist down is irritated and swollen because your body is absorbing all of the force that your foot is putting onto that turf because it's bouncing right back up into your body, and none of it is going down into the ground.

- The first time-- the first few times I ever played on field turf-- because like you're saying, you're explaining it right, that's old Astroturf. The new field turf is even more forces in you because of the rubber pebbles and all that. The first few times I remember being on it, it was me, teammates, whatever, we were cramping in our calf muscles and in our leg muscles because of the re-shock what you're talking about. Our bodies weren't used to it, right?

It was like, whoa, this is weird, whatever. And I was like in practice and going, damn, I'm cramping up, and I haven't even run yet. Like, what the hell is going on? It was an issue, but that just-- I'm just, again, trying to explain that there is a jarring-- it's a jarring experience once you feel the difference. It is. And it's got to go.

- Well, bottom line is we are both prepared to die on this hill.

- Yeah we are.

- And it will be a hill covered in grass, not field turf.